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Cheat Engine
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Corgano
How do I cheat?
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Joined: 19 Nov 2010
Posts: 9
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 Posted: Mon May 25, 2015 2:49 pm Post subject: Bloatware, the early signs of software going to shit. |
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I have been a user of cheat engine on and off now for many years. Any time I need to edit memory, I instantly reach for a CE installer based off of muscle memory, at this point. Sometimes when I installed it, I'd find a new feature or a bug that has been fixed, seeing updated was always a nice surprise.
However I just installed cheat engine for the first time on my new windows 8 laptop, and I got a surprise that is much less pleasant: Bloatware.
Now I need you to understand how completely serious of an issue this is. Bloatware is an early symptom of things going to shit. IT's like the lump that you ignore until it starts hurting, and when you get it checked out it ends up being cancer. Get it removed. Now, or it WILL spread, and you'll find yourself years later with banner ads and a dwindling userbase.
Don't believe me? Look at utorrent. IT used to be a wonderful program to use, but now I cant even use it. Every time I went to install it there were too many hoops to jump through or I ended up with bloatware anyways. Forced ads and a bunch of other bullshit I never asked for made it completely unusable. Now I use deluge.
Cheat engine is still a great program, and it's still clean, but this is a very slippery slope. Please don't ruin Cheat engine.
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Dark Byte
Site Admin
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| Posted: Mon May 25, 2015 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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This has been in Cheat Engine since version 5.6, it's nothing new (and there is a version without installer available on the download page as well)
As long as the offer screens provided by opencandy/sweetlabs adhere to the rules (skip the install and no tricking people) I have no issue with it
Also, the forum used to have banner ads but I decided to remove them
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Rydian
Grandmaster Cheater Supreme
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Joined: 17 Sep 2012
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| Posted: Mon May 25, 2015 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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Doesn't the installer not actually include that stuff, and the OpenCandy part fetches stuff from the net if checked?
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atom0s
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| Posted: Tue May 26, 2015 6:26 am Post subject: |
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| Rydian wrote: | | Doesn't the installer not actually include that stuff, and the OpenCandy part fetches stuff from the net if checked? |
In some extreme cases even unchecking and saying no to everything will still result in malware/spyware/junk being installed along with the desired application.
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Dark Byte
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| Posted: Tue May 26, 2015 6:36 am Post subject: |
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Perhaps once a year one of the advertisers messes up , but that will usually end up with them being banned from the network within 24 hours. (the rules state that all offers must be skippable)
Same goes for banner-ad networks where once in a while one starts showing ads with exploits
And yes, the OpenCandy part downloads the offers, it doesn't come with it
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Rydian
Grandmaster Cheater Supreme
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| Posted: Tue May 26, 2015 7:11 am Post subject: |
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| atom0s wrote: | | Rydian wrote: | | Doesn't the installer not actually include that stuff, and the OpenCandy part fetches stuff from the net if checked? |
In some extreme cases even unchecking and saying no to everything will still result in malware/spyware/junk being installed along with the desired application. |
My isn't whether the stuff can end up on the computer or not. It is quite well established that it can, that's the point of this thread.
The issue I bring up is with the wording and statement of the OP that the crap is not actually in the .exe you download from the site initially.
It's not actually a part of CE.
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STN
I post too much
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Joined: 09 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Fri May 29, 2015 1:58 am Post subject: |
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| Rydian wrote: | My isn't whether the stuff can end up on the computer or not. It is quite well established that it can, that's the point of this thread.
The issue I bring up is with the wording and statement of the OP that the crap is not actually in the .exe you download from the site initially.
It's not actually a part of CE. |
You expect the OP to understand that ?, he doesn't know the difference between bloatware and adware/malware. What he describes if it were true would make CE and utorrent adware(actually utorrent is but not CE).
The android apps from google on my cellphone are all bloatware and privacy invaders, actually the android OS is a bloatware, the 3rd party apps that i use are adware.
Actually, he is wrong about the lump thing as well. Cancerous lumps don't hurt usually, most women who end up with breast cancer have non-painful lumps and with the unfortunate ones, it is diagnosed when it spreads elsewhere (different part of body hurts) and the prognosis is seriously f***ed up. The lump is silent or disappears. The deadly thing about cancer is it is a silent killer, you don't know you have it until you know.
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Corgano
How do I cheat?
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Joined: 19 Nov 2010
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| Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2015 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Dark Byte wrote: | | Also, the forum used to have banner ads but I decided to remove them |
I want to make clear, I have no problem with web ads on the forum / site. I understand the need to cover hosting costs and this helps. Linking things through ad.fly is also A-OK. Hell, even if the installer had just regular ol' ads that you click and they bring you to the other person's site I'd be fine. It's the checked-by-default options to install crapware that are really, really, really, really annoying (even more annoying than using too many really's!). I know many people don't carefully read every page of an installer for software they use everyday just to make sure they're not having shit installed along with the program.
I'll have to check the download page, I didn't know there was a bullshit-free installer.
| Rydian wrote: | | atom0s wrote: | | Rydian wrote: | | Doesn't the installer not actually include that stuff, and the OpenCandy part fetches stuff from the net if checked? |
In some extreme cases even unchecking and saying no to everything will still result in malware/spyware/junk being installed along with the desired application. |
My isn't whether the stuff can end up on the computer or not. It is quite well established that it can, that's the point of this thread.
The issue I bring up is with the wording and statement of the OP that the crap is not actually in the .exe you download from the site initially.
It's not actually a part of CE. |
My issue isn't that is part of cheat engine, my issue is the level of intregation with the installer can easily lead to people installing it unintentionally, and many crap ware programs out there are annoying to remove and leave bloat and crap behind. An ad in the installer is very different from a routine in the installer to auto install it, whether it's strictly packaged "inside" the installer or not.
| STN wrote: | | The android apps from google on my cellphone are all bloatware and privacy invaders, actually the android OS is a bloatware, the 3rd party apps that i use are adware. |
Unrelated to the topic, but I wanted to mention stripsearch. It's an app search engine that lets you limit search by PERMISSIONS, eg if you want a flashlight app, you can find one that has no permissions to contacts, internet, or files - because why the hell would a flashlight need them 
EDIT:
| atom0s wrote: | | Corgano wrote: | | I don't want to have to carefully read every page of an installer for software I install all the time, just to make sure I'm not having shit installed along with the program. |
You pretty much invalidated this entire thread just with this sentence alone. Sorry, but stop being lazy and look at what you are doing. |
Fair point. I revised my argument in this post to that end. While the issue does concern me personally, I know of and personally know many who are effected by packaged crapware, and the spirit of this argument is on the behalf of all people caught unaware by the addition or inclusion of such crapware in installers, especially those who lack the knowledge to remove the crapware once it is installed.
Last edited by Corgano on Tue Jun 16, 2015 12:31 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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atom0s
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| Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2015 12:42 am Post subject: |
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| Corgano wrote: | | I don't want to have to carefully read every page of an installer for software I install all the time, just to make sure I'm not having shit installed along with the program. |
You pretty much invalidated this entire thread just with this sentence alone. Sorry, but stop being lazy and look at what you are doing.
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STN
I post too much
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| Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2015 3:33 am Post subject: |
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| Corgano wrote: | | I don't want to have to carefully read every page of an installer for software I install all the time, just to make sure I'm not having shit installed along with the program. |
Yeah i can guess. The average user these days is so dumbed down, expecting them to read, even for their own benefit, is something of an impossible task. They would much rather twerk or do another idiotic thing lol. Anyhow, a quick Google search and i found this
http://opencandy.com/faqs/
| Quote: | For those of you still unconvinced, try any of these steps:
Beginner: disconnect your internet connection (beware some software needs the internet to complete its install)
Intermediate: run the OpenCandy powered installer from the command-line with /NOCANDY
Advanced: add a domain block in your firewall for *.opencandy.com
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That should allow you to just click next, next and done without using your eyes.
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Geri
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| Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2015 7:22 am Post subject: |
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| STN wrote: |
http://opencandy.com/faqs/
| Quote: | For those of you still unconvinced, try any of these steps:
Beginner: disconnect your internet connection (beware some software needs the internet to complete its install)
Intermediate: run the OpenCandy powered installer from the command-line with /NOCANDY
Advanced: add a domain block in your firewall for *.opencandy.com
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I think the beginner method will not work if you get DB's online installer, but I have tested the /NOCANDY method and it's legit. No offers, nothing installed except CE.
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Corgano
How do I cheat?
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Joined: 19 Nov 2010
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| Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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| atom0s wrote: | | Corgano wrote: | | I don't want to have to carefully read every page of an installer for software I install all the time, just to make sure I'm not having shit installed along with the program. |
You pretty much invalidated this entire thread just with this sentence alone. Sorry, but stop being lazy and look at what you are doing. |
But it's not just me. Half the time I am helping a co-worker / family member on their computer, I see crapware that was installed along side flash or some other software that they don't know how to get rid of. I know that people using cheat engine are more technically savvy, but I am against checked-by-default crapware packaged with installers on principle for the people who aren't. The more programs that use these kinds of ads, the more common and the more acceptable this practice seems to be. I don't want checked-by-default crapware to become commonplace, so I fight it whenever a program I like starts using it.
Imagine what would have happened if the first few programs that started doing this, the users completely boycotted their software until it was removed. We wouldn't have this problem now.
I also want to reiterate, I think the following are finePutting non-invasive ads on web pages / forums
Putting conventional click ads in installers
Packaging crapware in the installer that is not checked to install by default
| STN wrote: |
| Quote: | For those of you still unconvinced, try any of these steps:
Beginner: disconnect your internet connection (beware some software needs the internet to complete its install)
Intermediate: run the OpenCandy powered installer from the command-line with /NOCANDY
Advanced: add a domain block in your firewall for <Snip - Can't even QUOTE someone saying a URL :/ >
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That should allow you to just click next, next and done without using your eyes. |
Hosts file, here I come! If I ever put an installer on a memory stick I'll have to remember a nocandy shortcut.
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atom0s
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| Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Corgano wrote: | But it's not just me. Half the time I am helping a co-worker / family member on their computer, I see crapware that was installed along side flash or some other software that they don't know how to get rid of. I know that people using cheat engine are more technically savvy, but I am against checked-by-default crapware packaged with installers on principle for the people who aren't. The more programs that use these kinds of ads, the more common and the more acceptable this practice seems to be. I don't want checked-by-default crapware to become commonplace, so I fight it whenever a program I like starts using it.
Imagine what would have happened if the first few programs that started doing this, the users completely boycotted their software until it was removed. We wouldn't have this problem now.
I also want to reiterate, I think the following are finePutting non-invasive ads on web pages / forums
Putting conventional click ads in installers
Packaging crapware in the installer that is not checked to install by default |
I don't disagree with you with the crapware stuff, I dislike it too. However, there is a degree in being self-aware and mindful of what you are doing when installing anything on your system. If you just mindlessly click next on an installer, then I have no remorse for your outcome on what does and doesn't get installed. It is your system to take care of, it is up to you to be aware of what you are installing.
That goes for anyone using a computer whether they are extremely computer savvy vs. unsure how to even turn the computer on. You should not just be flying through an installer clicking next on every screen without even the slightest look at what it's doing.
Another thing to keep in mind, the installer is there with the ads for Dark Byte to generate some revenue for his work he has put into Cheat Engine for years on end. I'm sure that he gets little to no donations / income from Cheat Engine without relying on the installers ads as well as the ads on this forum.
Put yourself in his shoes. You've poured countless hours of work into an application for YEARS on end to get close to nothing in return for it. Yet, you have someone come to the site and complain about the 1 method of income from the project that he has. There is a lot more to the installer then just being annoying. It is a way for him to make any bit of income on something he does for free out of the kindness of his heart and his own free time.
Dark Byte is more then welcome to chime in and correct me if I'm wrong about the donations but to be honest, I really doubt he gets much, if any at all, from a straight donation for his time and effort.
Don't get me wrong though, I really dislike the installers with the bloatware/crapware too, but in some cases, such as Cheat Engines, I totally understand where the developer is coming from with using it.
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Corgano
How do I cheat?
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| Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2015 10:39 am Post subject: |
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I understand the need to cover hosting costs and make something from all th hard work, which is why I suggest other forms of advertisement (add links like admaggots to this list, too). I would just prefer EVERY other option for advertising combined than the installed-by-default crapware. As far as I'm concerned there is the line.
I am curious though, how well does advertising pay? Is it like $10 a month? $1 a day? $0.10 a view? Do they pay for sees or only for installs of the crapware?
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Geri
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| Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2015 11:53 am Post subject: |
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Opencandy probably pays much much more than simple advertisements on the forum or main CE site. Simple advertisements are borderline useless.
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